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Could You Explain Abortion to a 5 Year Old?


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Vizzini
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Joined: 08 Jan 2007
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Could You Explain Abortion to a 5 Year Old?

It struck me this morning that my five year old daughter has a very natural, common sense approach to moral issues. When she asks why the lion kills the warthog, she understands when I tell her the lion does it to eat. When she asks why our army is trying to kill certain people, she understands when I tell her they do it trying to protect us from people who would harm us.

Anyway, I was sitting outside pondering this and wondered how I would explain an elective abortion. If my little girl somehow came across a picture of an aborted baby, how would I (and more importantly, anyone) justify that act to her in a way that might make her understand the reason for it?

If you think you could, please explain to me what you would say.

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Post Thu 24 May, 2007 10:11 am 
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Vizzini
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I predict no response from the pro-choice side.
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Post Thu 24 May, 2007 1:15 pm 
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wanderer
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There's justification for abortion, but that doesn't give it a moral justification. Like most wars that are fought, where people, innocent as unborn babies, are killed in far greater amounts than "bad guys".

I sure hope your daughter won't have to be exposed to such things at such a young age. Kids will learn in time just how messed up the world they live in really is.

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Post Thu 24 May, 2007 1:26 pm 
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Vizzini
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But even in the case of innocent people dying in a war there is some reasoning behind it (its sad and unfortunate but if the war was serving some purpose, protecting other life etc. my daughter could understand that).

What justification could make her understand a Mother electing to chop her baby into peices (which would look a lot like her baby brother all chopped up)?

What would you say to her? Mom was poor? Mom hadn't finished school? Mom didn't want kids? The baby was sick (yeah right!)? The baby was retarded? Mom didn't like the baby's Daddy? That isn't a baby honey, it's a lump of tissue?

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Last edited by Vizzini on Thu 24 May, 2007 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Thu 24 May, 2007 2:25 pm 
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wanderer
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Oh come on viz. Collateral damage is not something a 5 year old is going to understand.

There's plenty of reasoning behind abortion. Women aren't thinking to themselves, "boy I hope I get pregnant so I can abort babies!" The reasons women get abortions are vast and all have their own personal justification for doing so.

What would I say? "I don't know"

Of course I'd certainly avoid traumatizing a young child with such imagery in the first place. They don't just "come across" such things on the playground or the disney channel. Some warped adult would have to expose them to it.

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Post Thu 24 May, 2007 3:30 pm 
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Vizzini
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quote:
Originally posted by wanderer:
Oh come on viz. Collateral damage is not something a 5 year old is going to understand.


Mine does, it really isn't that hard of a concept. Of course she's been reading for quite awhile now so maybe she isn't typical (I can brag!).

Which of the "justifications" for abortion I listed do you think my common-sense daughter would understand (like she understands the lion killing to eat)? She would not understand a Mommy chopping her baby up because the baby is sick, or because Mommy doesn't like Daddy, or because Mommy doesn't like kids. They are just pi**-poor reasons to chop a baby up, even a five year old can see that.

quote:
Originally posted by wanderer:


What would I say? "I don't know"


Her body, her choice (to chop up babies).

quote:
Originally posted by wanderer:


Some warped adult would have to expose them to it.


And some warped adult would have to chop the baby up in the first place.
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Post Thu 24 May, 2007 3:54 pm 
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wanderer
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So your 5 year old "understands" that it's ok to kill babies and other 5 year olds, granted it was done with good intentions? Please. Talk about pi** poor explanations.

I couldn't put a positive spin on killing innocent people (born or unborn). That's why I would say "I don't know". I can't understand the type of person who thinks killing innocent people is ever justified.

I've seen the pictures of aborted babies. They turn my stomach. I've also seen the pictures of young children and yes, babies, who have been blown into pieces by our "well meaning" bombs. Also disgusting. Neither are morally justifiable. Though both are "justified" nonetheless.

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Post Fri 25 May, 2007 9:38 am 
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Vizzini
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quote:
Originally posted by wanderer:
So your 5 year old "understands" that it's ok to kill babies and other 5 year olds, granted it was done with good intentions? Please. Talk about pi** poor explanations.


No one said it was "ok" but the concept of a horrible accident happening while pursuing something good and/or necessary isn't real complicated (except to liberals and pacifists apparently). Chopping a baby up because the baby is sick or because Mommy doesn't like Daddy or because pregnancy is uncomfortable is not understandable in the same way.

You wring your hands about the victims of war and ask what great purpose taking these risks could possibly serve, I ask (and my daughter would ask) what great purpose is being served that would make a Mommy intentionally have her baby chopped up? There are understandable answers to the first question (protecting other innocent life etc.), there is not an understandable answer to the second (except maybe to protect the life of the Mother).

quote:
Originally posted by wanderer:


I couldn't put a positive spin on killing innocent people (born or unborn). That's why I would say "I don't know". I can't understand the type of person who thinks killing innocent people is ever justified.


Um, people are shooting mortars into a city and killing ten innocent people a day, in order to kill the people shooting mortars an innocent person will be put at risk. Sometimes the innocent person will die while we kill the people shooting mortars. Yeah, thats soooo hard to understand. No different than Mommy chopping her baby up because she wants to finish grad school.

I think my 5 year old is smarter than a lot of adults.
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Post Fri 25 May, 2007 11:22 am 
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Vizzini
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Would you have bombed German cities (or taken the slow approach while Jews were being gassed)?
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Post Fri 25 May, 2007 11:58 am 
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wanderer
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Viz, your using of your own daughter in your argument is just sad man. Please stop, it's embarrasing.

As far as what benefit abortion provides to society? Hmm, well, from a realist perspective (not a moralist), it reduces the number of Americans that rely on the state.

Young, black, urban and poor, that's the most common demographic for women who have abortions. They mostly abort the babies because they literally cannot provide for them. Not to mention (dad advocate), a high percentage of the daddies book as soon as they find out that they've knocked a girl up. So they would also grow up in a fatherless home, living off food stamps and welfare checks. Sounds downright utopian huh? And sure, you hear success stories and speeches about all it takes is hard work, blah blah blah, but the reality is, a lot of these kids do grow up to either live off the state or become criminals.

You will find of course, much more shallow reasons for abortions, but the reasons most women cite is the genuine lack of ability to provide adequately for a child.

Ever hear the Elvis song "In the ghetto"? The cycle still continues today.

Meanwhile, the preachers on tv preach about choosing life to people that are just scraping by, taking their money and living in mansions, while these kids live in squallor.

--------
When someone drops 50,000 tons of explosive into a city where civilians are present, it is already accepted that civilians are going to die. No one wants it to happen, but they know it's going to happen anyway. So classifying it as an "accident" doesn't quite fit the bill. A stray shot from a bullet perhaps. But not a bombing.

Bombing, nuking (or firebombing) civilians intentionally as happened in WW2, can certainly be justified. Though can it ever be justified morally?

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Post Fri 25 May, 2007 2:10 pm 
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Vizzini
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quote:
Originally posted by wanderer:
Viz, your using of your own daughter in your argument is just sad man. Please stop, it's embarrasing.


Use any five year old, this is just blah blah blah to distract from the issue. She and most 5 year olds clearly have more sense than many adults.

quote:
Originally posted by wanderer:


As far as what benefit abortion provides to society? Hmm, well, from a realist perspective (not a moralist), it reduces the number of Americans that rely on the state.


So does killing welfare recipients.

quote:
Originally posted by wanderer:


Young, black, urban and poor, that's the most common demographic for women who have abortions. They mostly abort the babies because they literally cannot provide for them.


What a bunch of BS, they aren't even required to support them, medicaid pays the maternity and you can leave the baby at a firestation with no questions asked and no further obligation. You don't even need to go to the trouble of adoption (good grief woman don't chop a baby up, just walk down to the firestation). Compassionate liberals won't mind supporting the baby if need be.

quote:
Originally posted by wanderer:


Not to mention (dad advocate), a high percentage of the daddies book as soon as they find out that they've knocked a girl up. So they would also grow up in a fatherless home, living off food stamps and welfare checks.


A poor Fatherless home? Might as well make some american chop baby out of the little guy.

quote:
Originally posted by wanderer:

Sounds downright utopian huh?


When were the choices reduced to utopian and being chopped up?

quote:
Originally posted by wanderer:

And sure, you hear success stories and speeches about all it takes is hard work, blah blah blah, but the reality is, a lot of these kids do grow up to either live off the state or become criminals.


Chop them up, they might commit a crime in 20 years or use foodstamps to buy lobster. Chop, chop, chop.

quote:
Originally posted by wanderer:


You will find of course, much more shallow reasons for abortions, but the reasons most women cite is the genuine lack of ability to provide adequately for a child.


Nonsense.

quote:
Originally posted by wanderer:

Bombing, nuking (or firebombing) civilians intentionally as happened in WW2, can certainly be justified. Though can it ever be justified morally?


I don't really understand this distinction you're trying to make, please define the difference between justified and justified morally.

I notice you didn't answer the question - would you have bombed German cities?
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Post Fri 25 May, 2007 4:47 pm 
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wanderer
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A justification is a reason for doing something. It doesn't have to be moral, or even practical.

Why people abort their babies....why people murder others, why people rob, rape and torture others...I don't know! But they sure do. And they all have their own justifications.

Realizing that ones own homeland can be devastated is a big motivator in ending a war. So sure, hitting the heart of Japan and Germany was necessary to end the war I'd say. Though an expert on ww2 I'm certainly not.

That's all from me here. You can continue talking with the strawman you brought.

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Post Tue 29 May, 2007 10:40 am 
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Vizzini
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I thought it was pretty clear from the examples I provided that I was referring to logical justifications as opposed to absurd justifications (such as justifying the dismemberment of a baby for financial reasons, even though you are not required to support the baby at all). You competely missed the point (quite intentionally I think).

And to answer your previous question - of course bombing a city can be morally justified.

As for strawmen - I think this idea of condoning abortion because some can't afford to raise a child is quite a big one (since raising the child is never required).

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Post Wed 30 May, 2007 9:32 am 
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PaulaJane
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A 5 year old

'You know honey, many children in public schools, and many people in society are taught that it really isn't a baby inside a woman. They are taught instead that it is a lump of tissue. So they think they have a right to kill that tissue.'

Or...

'There are many people in the world today that do not love God, and that don't know that God is a God of love. It says in the Bible at: ??? that man is selfish, with no love. That is why men and women choose to kill their baby.'

Or...

'Our political system is run by the "elite" and they want to thin the population."

Or...

Some men and women think they are gods, and take it upon themselves to choose who is to live and who is not.

But, if you bring your children up with a Christian belief (I am talking a real Christian belief), and with the Bible.. the words of God.. then your child will know the answer to this question, and will not have to ask.

I hope that I've been helpful in your dilemma. I read the Holy Scriptures to my girls, and taught them right from the start that our God is a God of love, and doesn't approve of any other behavior.

So why is my 16 year old so hateful toward me? Why does she no longer listen to me? Or obey me? When recently grounded, she snuck out the back door. When asked why, her response: "Because I do not approve of the reason you are grounding me." You got me...

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Post Sat 09 Jun, 2007 11:50 pm 
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Vizzini
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Good answers.
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Post Sun 10 Jun, 2007 11:25 am 
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