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Your Maine Forum Forum Index -> Around The Water Cooler

Men Should Not Be Forced to Pay Child Support...
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PaulaJane
Moose


Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 795
Location: Maine


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oops

Wanderer, way back on page 1 of this thread, you asked me


quote:
Do you believe in free will PJ? Or do you believe god has a plan for everything and our fates are already written?


I do apologize because I missed it somehow. So, here is my answer:

I am not sure what you mean by "free will". I do know that we do have the option of making choices, albeit at times they are poor choices, and we do pay the consequences. If that is what free will is, then yes, I do believe we have free will.

I also believe that our fate comes about with the choices we make. So, whether we make good choices, or bad choices, we pay the fiddler.

Perhaps that comes with "what yea sow, so shall yea reap" and also, the modern day version of "what goes around, comes around." Does fate come through our choices? our decisions? Perhaps. Thus, by our choices, we control our fate, or destiny.

I believe also that in the beginning of time, men were 'gatherers', hunters. Through time though, man has been 'softened' by society, and prefer to shop at the big box, where they put poisons in our foods, and feed us chemicals that change our brains somehow.

Your opinion?
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Post Fri 22 Jun, 2007 9:29 pm 
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wanderer
Official Mainah


Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 1747



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Well that is good to hear, as I certainly feel the same way. I only asked because of this statement you made about a woman becoming pregnant through force..

"I wonder if it is Gods' way of giving her a child to raise for him. Just a thought..."

...as this statement certainly contradicts the free will position.

I have a major problem with the "our fate is in God's hands" position, simply because it removes accountability from man.

As far as softening? Sure, the industrial revolution eliminated the need to be fit for survival.

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Post Mon 25 Jun, 2007 11:19 am 
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Vizzini
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Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 566



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There is no free-will in any real sense. I had no choice but to write that. You have no choice but to write what you're about to write (or it might be impossible for you to write anything).

You might get struck by lightning in the next ten seconds. The massive voltage surging through your nervous system might turn you into an idiot savant and you'll spend the rest of your days counting the blades of grass in your backyard (thinking you chose to through your own free-will), but really it was caused by some strange combination of the lightning, brain structure, what you ate that day, a childhood memory of ponies, the fact that you were counting when the lightning struck, the pscyhological effects of being made to wear a shirt with flowers on it as a young boy, your left-handedness, having exactly two gold fillings and one silver ring on with steel toed boots while standing above an underground pool of oil, whatever the cashier had mumbled under her voice and the dream you'd had about being a cow, moo moo you now say as you "decide" to count the grass forever.

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Post Mon 25 Jun, 2007 2:20 pm 
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PaulaJane
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Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 795
Location: Maine


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Choices

Your first choice Vizzini was to decide if you were going to respond or just ignore the conversation. Your second choice was to actually respond. You had to first 'think' of what you wanted to say, then you had to say it.

Years back, my neighbor chose to eat a mess of Dunkin Donuts that her friend brought over for a morning coffee. She had a stroke. She most likely did not think that all those donuts would make that happen because she didn't have an understanding of her body, and what affects it.

A few years back, my husband decided he didn't want to eat the "bird food" that I prepared, so he ate a dozen donuts (NOT Dunkin Donuts). He blew is aorta apart. He made a poor choice and suffered the consequenses of his actions.

I would have to say then that we do have free choice, and that at times we choose the wrong choice and suffer the consequenses of our choices.

I'm not sure though how to look at the sky falling, or the electric surges, etc as being a choice, or if perhaps it is "an act of god". I did not uppercase god, as I am not thinking of the Almighty God when I say god. The Almighty God is a God of Love. Whereas Satan is also a god, but not a god of love. He does cause chit to happen, and makes it a thing where we blame our heavenly father instead of him. Then again, that is only my opinion and is not necessarily true beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I do hope that I have not overstayed my visit with you Vizzini, and have responded to your statement without confusing myself.

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Post Mon 25 Jun, 2007 2:56 pm 
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Vizzini
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Joined: 08 Jan 2007
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Free-will is nothing but a mythology that has survived even while the other mythologies have been reduced to mockery (which is amazing). Just like making sacrafices to the Sun etc. made us feel as if we were more in control than we really are, the idea of free-will reassures us. We need to reassure ourselves that we aren't just being shoved around by an infinite physical universe, or an infinite past full of unimaginable events (causes).

This is what a God could understand from his point of view (and this is what allows God to forgive) - you can't know any real cause of anything when time (and events) trail behind you (and stretch in front of you) into infinity, you only pretend that you can for reassurance. A God who sees the beggining and the end in one glance understands there can't be any blame, the beggining and end are all the same glorious simultaneous spectacle to an all seeing God. From that perspective it becomes impossible not to forgive. From that perspective every "sin" is a facet of the overall design, not the fault of any individual. It is the fault of the Father, the Creator of the whole, who sadly recognizes his own "faults" and "mistakes" manifesting themselves in his creation (which he still loves).

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Post Mon 25 Jun, 2007 10:50 pm 
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wanderer
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Joined: 05 Nov 2004
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You been sharing some of error's stash viz?

Beam me up! alien

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Post Tue 26 Jun, 2007 8:34 am 
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Vizzini
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Not eveything that you don't personally understand is nonsense, or drug induced.
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Post Tue 26 Jun, 2007 8:37 am 
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wanderer
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So that explains the pedophiles, dog rapists and homos right? It's all god's plan? Smile
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Post Tue 26 Jun, 2007 8:41 am 
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Vizzini
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Personally, I don't know if there is a God. To say there is or isn't a God is just an arrogant guess (as silly as a tadpole guessing at the meaning of these words). I said if there is an all-seeing creative God then from that point of view, forgiveness would be inevitable.
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Post Tue 26 Jun, 2007 8:47 am 
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