Right, I'm just asking people to acknowledge that its clearly a possibility. Do you admit its possible? The gay community doesn't seem willing to do that.

Massive doses of hormones, hormone mimicking pollutants, hormones in drinking water etc. can effect behavior associated with hormone levels (DUH) and sexuality/physical attraction is associated with hormone levels.

Do you acknowledge that this is factual?

Are you a homosexual?
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Love, love, love.

Vizzini

Post some credible evidence and I'll consider the possibility. Rats don't count.

Your argument isn't convincing.IMO. And neither are your sources up to this point.

As for my preference, get a life.
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"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine

This is pretty much all I've said, and you know perfectly well it is scientific fact.

Massive doses of hormones, hormone mimicking pollutants, hormones in drinking water etc. can effect behavior associated with hormone levels (DUH) and sexuality/physical attraction etc. is associated with hormone levels.

To dismiss the possibility that these kinds of things can potentially effect sexuality is just goofy. If someone does that it most likely indicates they are a person with an agenda or vested interest in the "gay is normal, gay is healthy, gays are born gay" song and dance.

These days you know perfectly well, the gay community would demonize any researcher who went down this path. Just like they demonized any psychologist who dared raise the possibility of a mental health component. The gay community has effectively shutdown any serious research in this area, because they cannot tolerate someone even suggesting that these perfectly reasonable possibilities are worth looking into. It's quite obvious that hormones (especially unusual exposure to hormones in early developmental stages) may influence sexual preference.

"The homosexuals had lower creatinine and 17-ketogenic steroid levels, lower androsterone-etiocholanolone ration, and higher 11-keto-etiocholanolone. They also had lower triglycerides, phospholipids, cholesterol, and beta-lopoproteins. "(Evans, R. (1972) Physical and biochemical characteristics of homosexual men. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology 39: pp. 140)."

"Women exposed prenatally via their pregnant mothers to diethylstilbestrol (DES, a synthetic nonsteroidal estrogen with masculinizing effects in female mammals) received higher ratings of homosexual behavior (Ehrhardt et al., 1985) and showed an increased incidence of left-hand preference (Geschwind & Galaburda, 1985b) compared to female controls. Similarly, women with congenital adrenal hyperplasmia (CAH, an inherited condition which involves an excessive secretion of andrenal androgens) received higher ratings of homosexual behavior (Money et al., 1984; Money, 1987) and showed an increased incidence of left-hand preference (Nass et al., 1987) compared to female controls."

I believe it's very important for Mothers to know that exposing thier unborn and newly born babies to certain hormones etc. is associated with an increased liklihood of homosexuality. The gay community has been irresponsible and selfish in their attempt to stifle further research of this kind.
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Love, love, love.

quote:

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Originally posted by tumbleweed:

As for my preference, get a life.

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Vizzini

Just as I thought. I don't see anything in your scientific data that shows the levels of any chemicals found in soy milk that would compare to the levels they are referring to in this study. Nothing is mentioned of how many people were studied, how much the dosage was, or how it compared to other studies where these chemicals weren't used or present at these levels, whatever they were, as none were mentioned.

And it is a bit outdated.

How has the gay community been irresponsible and selfish in their attempt to stifle further research of this kind? Examples would be great .

How many gay people had a mother who drank a lot of soy milk compare to the average gay person who had a mother that didn't drink any soy milk?

"To dismiss the possibility that these kinds of things can potentially effect sexuality is just goofy. If someone does that it most likely indicates they are a person with an agenda or vested interest in the "gay is normal, gay is healthy, gays are born gay" song and dance."

You're way off base. You are speculating and doing a damn poor job of it too I might add. You know nothing about me or why I'm disputing your claims, other than I'm pointing out the flaws of your logic. I've never said gay is normal or healthy.That's just more speculation. I have no vested interest or agenda. I just haven't seen any proof from you that is convincing enough to buy into your claim that soy milk is causing anyone to be gay.

Terms like potentially and possibly don't mean much to me coming from someone who is trying to find a smoking gun for homosexuality.
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"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine

quote:

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Originally posted by tumbleweed:


Just as I thought. I don't see anything in your scientific data that shows the levels of any chemicals found in soy milk that would compare to the levels they are referring to in this study.

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Purely for the sake of science.

I would be willing to enter a study:

To eat soy based food everyday, and to force myself to watch a stripper and to suffer through a lap-dance each day; for a year to see if all that soy had any queering effects on me.

I would be willing to do that for science.

I would force myself to go through that, just for us to learn more and to find the truth of this matter.
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ET1 SS - USN Retired

Maine Organic Farmers and Gardener Fair

Vizzini

"The rest of your post is a collection of false premises, strawmen, misrepresentations of my position etc."

That's pretty rich coming from you and the suggestions you are making.

You claim I'm playing dumb, yet you don't provide anything to prove your point.I have no idea what you are even talking about in reference to what information is being surpressed. I'll ask again then. What information? Enlighten me.

There are enough gay people who never touched soy milk to cast doubt on your claims.IMO. All I gather from your suggestions is if you drink soy milk your kid might turn out to be gay. Or if you get to much of a certain hormone, your kid might be gay.This is a theory and not very convincing to me. I want to know how likely or probable it is that these chemicals are the definite cause of someone being a gay person.

You are looking for evidence so you can hit a switch to keep people from being gay so you won't have to deal with them. I've read enough of your posts on this topic to realize you are homophobic, and that is what you base your perspective on.

I don't dwell much on gay issues and I don't care what makes them tick. They are what they are, and you can eliminate all the hormones you want and there will still be gay people, and I'm sure a lot more than you care to see. If they start to reproduce, with 2 gay people of the same sex making a baby, and it is gay too, I will start to worry.

Give me some data on the percentage of people in the population today who are gay, compared to the number of them when these hormones started showing up in the levels you say can make someone gay, and I'll buy some of your snake oil.

Oh, and what about bi-sexual people. Do they get that way from drinking slighly less amounts of soy milk or getting a lower dose of these hormones?
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"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine

Your post is really too silly for me to spend much time on a reply, but let me just correct you on the main point. This is all I've claimed-

Massive doses of hormones, hormone mimicking pollutants, hormones in drinking water etc. can effect behavior associated with hormone levels and sexuality/physical attraction is associated with hormone levels.

I have no idea why you threw such a tantrum over me stating such an obvious fact, and I really can't imagine why you would be reluctant to acknowledge the factual nature of this statement. Anyone who ever took an introduction biology class knows this to be true.
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Love, love, love.

Vizzini

Fine by me. I'm no more convinced of any claims you have made now than when you first made them. What you perceive as a tantrum is nothing more than a response to your insinuations. I find this topic a bit comical actually.I have a hard time being mad when I'm smiling.

As for biology class, the gay issue was pretty much taboo when I came through the system, but it doesn't take a lab rat to figure out the difference between what is possible and what is speculation based on insufficient evidence.
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"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine

Well if anyone has the money, I am willing to put my life in jeopardy to find out.
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ET1 SS - USN Retired

Maine Organic Farmers and Gardener Fair

ET1(SS)

Do you accept pay-pal? I'm curious to get to the bottom of this issue.
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"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine

quote:

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Originally posted by tumbleweed:
Vizzini

Fine by me. I'm no more convinced of any claims you have made now than when you first made them...

it doesn't take a lab rat to figure out the difference between what is possible and what is speculation based on insufficient evidence.

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Vizzini,

quote:

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Massive doses of hormones, hormone mimicking pollutants, hormones in drinking water etc. can effect behavior associated with hormone levels and sexuality/physical attraction is associated with hormone levels.

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